A YAMS Conversation with Music Icon Rodney “Darkchild” Jerkins

Producer & songwriter Darkchild talks working with Brandy, Beyoncé, Michael Jackson & more

Beyoncé. Brandy. Mary J. Blige. Britney Spears. Michael Jackson. Toni Braxton. Lady Gaga. What do all of these names have in common? Outside of them all being wildly successful superstars, they also share another common thread. Rodney “Darkchild” Jerkins is responsible for creating some of their biggest hits to date.

Darkchild was raised the son of a pastor and a choir director in New Jersey, with a gift for music production discovered early on. It was this gift for music that led him to develop his producer chops as a teenager working for the likes of Teddy Riley and Uptown Records. He has a production style that is signature to him – a characteristic that has made him one of the most sought-after producers and songwriters of the past 30 years.

This year, Darkchild is being inducted into the Songwriters Hall Of Fame for helping shape the sound of modern music. YAMS’ Dante Nicholas got a chance to speak with the legend recently to hear the stories behind some of our favorite R&B records that he had the pleasure of producing and writing.

On Mary J. Blige's “I Can Love You”

Dante: Tell me if I'm wrong, but I feel like “I Can Love You” was one of your first really, really big hits that you produced. It's one of those songs that solidified Mary as The Queen of Hip Hop/Soul. What was it like working with Mary in the 90s and being a big part of her legacy?

Darkchild: Man, I was a young puppy going into that. I was actually in Virginia Beach working under Teddy Riley, and I got the call from her A&R that she was having a listening session with producers to play their beats, and she wanted me to come because she liked a song I had out with Gina Thompson at the time – “The Things You Do”. And I was like, ‘Yo, what? This is crazy!’ The next day, I had to get to New York from Virginia Beach. But I had to go home first and actually make the beats, and then I went to New York. “I Can Love You” was one of those beats that I played first, and I did it literally the day before. And, she was like, ‘Yo, I want you to stay in New York. We’re gonna work this week’ – and myself, Mary and her sister LaTonya went in the studio and wrote, “I Can Love You.”

And then that relationship just formed. We worked all that week on other songs and it's always been a blessing working with Mary. I'm happy to be part of her legacy, as well as her being part of mine. That particular song “I Can Love You” is one of my favorites because when you're working with somebody for the first time and you’re on the come-up trying to figure it out, it's like what do you do? You know? So it was a dope moment for somebody like Mary, who was coming off of “Real Love” and all these big hits to be working with me. And I was like man, I just wanted to give her a dope hip-hop record that she could sing over. And then it became that. It became a lot of people's favorites.

Dante: Honestly, with my personal taste in R&B, I always like songs that aren't necessarily the big number ones, but they're still fan favorites. “I Can Love You” is one of them ones that you can play today, and as soon as people hear it, they're turned up! They’re catching a vibe. Was that the moment when you felt your career take off?

Darkchild: At the time, I was working with a lot of new artists, and doing remixes for established artists. So I hadn’t really established myself yet as a real writer and producer. So Mary J – that name was kind of like the come out party. Like ‘Yo, you doing Mary J. Blige?’ Yeah. Put some respect on it now, right? That opened the doors for other people to believe that ‘Yo, I might need to get in the studio with dude to see what he got.’

The breakout hit we all know was “The Boy Is Mine” for Brandy and Monica. Like, that’s the thing that catapulted my career to the next level. But Mary was the artist that got other artists talking. Because I feel like all artists rock with Mary. So when people heard that, it was like ‘I want to see what we can do together too.’

On Brandy’s “It’s Not Worth It” & the ‘Full Moon’ album

Dante: One thing that people love about you is how unique your sound is. When you say “Darkchild” to someone, they know exactly what that is and what that sounds like in their head. So I wanted to ask you about Brandy's ‘Full Moon’ album.

Darkchild: My favorite album that I’ve ever produced.

Dante: Same! I really love alternative R&B and just R&B that's very experimental and blends different genres into one. And that album really set the tone for that to start happening a lot more in R&B. One of my favorites on there is “It's Not Worth It”, because the production is so crazy and fast and she's singing her face off at the same time. You don't really see that too often and I don't think a lot of people can do that, to be honest.

Darkchild: What’s interesting is: “It's Not Worth It” was like literally part two of “Angel In Disguise.” I loved “Angel In Disguise” so much that I was like, man I need to do a part two of that. Not exactly the same, but some of the instrumentation and the elements that came from “Angel In Disguise” definitely ended up on “It's Not Worth It.”

Dante: Ahh! I definitely can hear that! What was your goal going into that ‘Full Moon’ album?

Darkchild: The goal was just to make a classic like, you know? We went into the studio with that type of mindset. I think Brandy wanted to be as experimental as possible with the low tones of her voice. And I wanted to be as experimental as possible with my musicality. So I think that's why we got that blend. Both of us were in that kind of experimental frame of mind. And it was us just trying things, no pressure. Like we knew what we did with ‘Never Say Never’ and “The Boy Is Mine.” But that was done, and it was just like, let's not go back to that. Let's get away from that, and let's do something else that's way off from what people would probably expect.

And we were in there kind of just creating and having fun. I didn't feel any type of pressure at all. I wanted to explore sounds that I never would normally go to. So I found myself getting equipment that I didn't have, and kind of just messing with gear for that album.

I was also doing Michael Jackson at the same time, by the way. So you got to understand that simultaneously, I was working with Michael on ‘Invincible.’ So because I was working with Michael, he was opening my world up to crazy sounds. I was going from one room to the next room, and so ‘Full Moon’ is somewhat connected to Michael’s ‘Invincible’ as well. Like, in a weird way, you know? I mean, even though Brandy’s was probably more R&B-spirited, the sonics, the interesting sounds, textures, and all…that was definitely coming from me working with Michael.

On Michael Jackson’s Ear for Unique Sounds

Dante: I did some research, and I saw you saying that when you were working on ‘Invincible’, y'all were driving around New York one day, and Michael heard this crane sound that he wanted to use in the studio. So I’m curious: did your desire to be super experimental in sound come from Michael, or were you already on that wave?

Darkchild: I was always challenging myself sonically, but Michael took it to a completely different level. I wasn't going into the junkyard, hitting things. I wasn't sampling out sounds on the street and all of that. That was Michael with his crazy way of thinking, his genius, crazy way of thinking that everything is a sound. And that's the way he thought – everything can be made into a sound. You can manipulate any sound to be another sound.

I always say I went to the Schools of Michael Jackson, Teddy Riley, Quincy Jones, and Berry Gordy. When I worked with Michael, those were the three people that he really locked into in his career, so I had a chance to embody all of that by working with him. I started working with Michael when I was 21 years-old, so that was my college.

On Beyoncé’s “Deja Vu”

Dante: You’ve worked with Destiny's Child and were responsible for one of their first huge hits (“Say My Name”). But I wanted to ask you about Beyoncé and “Deja Vu” specifically. “Deja Vu” is one of my favorites, just because it’s kind of slept on when people think about her big singles.

Darkchild: Rolling Stone recently made it their number one song of like, all time, or something like that.

Dante: As it should be! It was just so bold and different from what I think anybody expected from her at that time. What was that process like when you were working with Beyoncé on the ‘B’Day’ album?

Darkchild: Man it's funny because it was like: “‘Say My Name’ Beyonce” was completely different from the one I was working with on “Deja Vu”, because now she's solo. She's in solo Beyonce mode and had a fierceness of like, I'm about to be on some female Michael Jackson stuff. Like, that's the way she walked in the studio. She walked into the studio super confident, knowing exactly what she wanted. Everything felt like it was storyboarded out. It was almost like she knew exactly what was going to happen over the next decade, you know. And she led the way, I'm gonna be honest. She led us to go in that direction. She was very vocal about what she wanted.

She told me that the music I had to make for her – she needed to be able to sing and dance to it. A lot of people can’t do that. So she was like, I want to be able to sing like crazy and dance like crazy. So I'm thinking, okay well, who sings and dances? Michael Jackson. So we took a page from him. “Deja Vu” definitely puts you in the frame of the ‘Off The Wall’ album, with the live horns and strings and the major seventh chords. But yet, I'm putting 808s on top to give it that newness. The freshness and the scratches and all that stuff give it that newness. And I think that's what that song really embodied for her – to be able to sing and dance like crazy, you know? And I wrapped it all around musicality.

On SZA “Shirt” & the ‘SOS’ album

Dante: More recently, you worked with SZA on “Shirt”, and a few other songs from the ‘SOS’ album. How did working with SZA, a more modern-era R&B star, differ from some of the legends of the 90s that you’ve worked with prior?

Darkchild: SZA, man…we did like six or seven songs in a day. Her pen is lethal. Just the way she writes, the way it comes to her…she’s super quick with it and just witty. The things that she says are very bold. Most people wouldn't say what she says. They would just be like, ‘Nah, let me scrap it. I'm not gonna say that like that.’ But she'll just say it. And I think that's what makes her unique. But yeah, we just locked in. In one day it was back to back to back. It was just crazy. It really was super creative.

Dante: Have y'all worked on anything else since ‘SOS’?

Darkchild: Nah. We talked about working again but we haven’t yet. But that was definitely one of my favorite sessions. Working with her was very easy for me because she matched my intensity creatively. As quick as I could play a progression was as quick as she could write the lyric. She’s just that fast. It's almost like a rapper, you know? It's almost like a freestyle rap artist. So I like that because the sky's the limit. I always say, if I would have locked in with her for 30 days, imagine what I would have been able to do, you know what I mean? I was working with Khalid a couple of weeks ago, and we did some really cool stuff. And again I was like, man, imagine if we lock in for like 10 days if this is what we can do in 2-3 days, you know?

Darkchild’s Artist Wish List

Dante: Is there anybody right now that you would love to executive produce a full project and really craft a sound around?

Darkchild: Man, it's some unique artists out there, but I would probably go back to an artist that I've always wanted to work with from the past. But I think in today's space, it’s probably RAYE. RAYE is someone who I would want to do a whole project with.

Dante: RAYE is so crazy!

Darkchild: Yeah, I did a record with her called “Genesis.” that turned out crazy. I think I would want to do something with her.

I've always felt like I'm my best when I work with artists that I really, really believe in, and I've always wanted to work with Lauryn Hill. I've always felt like if I got a chance to really sit with Lauryn Hill…man. That ‘Miseducation’ album and what that was, we never got to experience it again. We never got to experience more Lauryn albums. We got some stuff here and there. But I just feel like if I ever would, no matter when it was, if I locked in with her, it would be something crazy.

Wait, wait, wait! There is one artist that I probably might even retire if I worked with this artist. It would be Jazmine Sullivan. I think if we could make a whole album, I would probably be like, okay I'm good. I don't even have to do this anymore. That would be it.

Dante: Do you like doing one-off songs or full projects more?

Darkchild: I love to make albums. You know, that's what I liked about working on ‘Full Moon’ and ‘Never Say Never.’ It allowed me to show myself as an executive producer. But sometimes you can just have one song for an artist, and it makes the difference. Like I probably did about four or five songs on Destiny's Child, right? But that one song “Say My Name” is the biggest song. So you don't have to always do 20-30 for the artist. You can just do a few songs if you believe enough that you can find that special thing.

I know there are artists that I haven't worked with that I could crack the code with. I could crack the code with The Weeknd tomorrow, literally in 30 minutes. I can crack the code just because I know that sound. I know that voice, I know what it needs. I also know what he hasn't done. I also know some of the things musicality-wise that he hasn't even tapped into, that would be really, really special if he did. It would just take his whole thing even to another level.

So that's kind of how I look at artists. Sometimes it's just a dream. And the good thing is, you can keep dreaming, you know. Because when I was 11 years old, I used to say the same thing about Michael Jackson. Dreaming that I work with Michael one day. And then 10 years later, I was in the studio with Michael. So now I'm older and I'm still dreaming. I'm still thinking about ideas for different artists and if we locked in, what it could become.

On The Current State of R&B

Dante: How do you feel about the current state of R&B? Is there anything you want to see more of? Or is there anything/anyone that you’re loving right now?

Darkchild: I like the alternative R&B that I'm hearing. Yeah. I like where that's going. I like the way it's pushing. It’s sonically a little bit different.

Dante: Yeah! People are doing a lot of indie rock infusion and electronic infusion, etc. within the genre.

Darkchild: Yeah there’s a young kid out of Brooklyn that I like named Adrian Daniel. I like his vibe. I just like hearing some fresh, cool sounds like you said. People like d4vd, you know, just those different colors and sonics that you don't hear every single day.

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What’s next up for Darkchild? He’s putting his passion for music and his focus into his new Christian Hip-Hop label Alienz Alive. The roster is full of raw talent that puts honesty at the center of their storytelling. Darkchild is on a faith-based mission to break down the stereotypes about what Christian music can sound like. And with a legend like himself at its helm, we can’t wait to see what they create.